This is what I drank in training, and the Ironman. Now it's the Goofy Challenge

Tuesday, April 07, 2009

NSF Fee complaint to RBC Royal Bank

Below is my complaint letter I sent in to RBC Royal Bank. For a $40.00 NSF charge.

My Name is David McGuire. I would like to make a complaint about an NSF
Charge in my account; specifically the cheque # 247 on April 2nd 2009 in
the amount of $500.00 This check was for my rent for the month of April. I
had recently started a new job and I was getting adjusted to my change in
pay schedules. I check my accounts multiple times each day, and I saw my
check went through, but it go over my overdraft limit.

I immediately called RBC Customer service operator named Dan, who said
"the cheque has gone through. If it hasn't been returned then you are OK, just
make sure you deposits before 6:00 pm to make sure".

So I phoned my Fiance who works right next to an RBC. I asked if I can
borrow some money until I get paid (less than a week) and I emphasized
what Dan said about getting in before 6:00pm. She is working but could meet
me at 5:30. She works just one business down from the RBC branch on
Broadway & Granville 1497 W Broadway Vancouver, BC.

I am about two hours away, and Mandy can't meet me until 5:30pm. So I make
sure I am at her place early. I get to her work, she gives me a cheque. It
is a cheque made to her, and she signs the back of it.

I run to the RBC just a store away. I stand in line for over 15 minutes. I
get to the cashier and let her know I want to deposit. She states that she
needs to see Mandy before she can deposit the cheque. I inform her of the
urgency, that Mandy has written me cheques before. That if I deposit
thought the ATM it would be accepted. She refuses.

It is now 5:55pm. I ask to speak to someone above her. Another female comes out who is really rude.

She throws the cheque on the counter and says, "how do I know this is
really Mandy'? I ask "what" So she says louder and much slower, like she is
talking to a child
"HOW........DO........I.........KNOW............YOU.........DIDNT........JU
ST.........FIND...........THIS...........CHEQUE?"

"are you saying that I forged a cheque"?

"How do I know this is Mandy"

I am now frustrated, the two ladies are looking at me like I am a thief,
treating me like I am trying to get away something. I phone Mandy.
"Get over here now"

I tell the two ladies that Mandy is on her way

"well we are closed now, you will have to come back tomorrow"

"I looked it is exactly 6:00pm"

There are still customers in the line behind me. I say

"no you will wait, I came all the way to do this, you will make sure
this happens because I am trying to avoid an NSF charge for me and
landlord"

Now keep in my mind, I have a traumatic brain injury. I respond to
stimulation differently than other people do. I have a slow reaction time.
For this "manager" to start talking down to me, I took as an insult. She
has no idea what I have been through. That I was never supposed to walk and
talk again, that I am training for an Ironman, that I work so hard every
day for all the things people take for granted.

Mandy is there at 6:03. She shows her ID, She has a bank account there. She
is also the bookkeeper for her company Aliki Gladwin and Associates. This
company is an interior design company that has worked for RBC, many times. They have worked on some of there buildings, and done the designs for them.

This doesn't stop the teller from making this statement

"if you make sure you have the money in the account you won't bounce cheques"

I just look at her. This wasn't done on purpose; I don't need a lecture from teller at the bank.

We were treated like we were scammers and dead beats. I am obviously trying everything I can to save both myself and my landlord fee's here. I
am aware of the situation, in fact I am the one that contacted you, not the
other way around. I am not running from my responsibility I am standing
here trying to resolve it before it happens.

What adds to my frustration is that I got no understanding. You see I am a
person with a disability. I was actually an employee of RBC in 2005 when I
had a stroke at work. I was in a coma and intensive care for 29 days. I
spent over a year in recovery. Learning how to walk and talk again.
Everything had to be relearned. As a result of my Traumatic Brain Injury I
know longer make new memories. Every day when I wake up, I have no memory
of the previous day. This puts an intense amount of stress upon me.

Despite my Short Term Memory Loss, and my Aphasia, I have gone back
to school, I have finished a Marathon, I am currently training for the
Penticton Ironman in 2009, and I hold a job.

I have submitted my issues with my disability, seeking a lower rate account
to RBC. I live off of a disability income and a settlement I got from RBC
when they terminated me while in the hospital (that took the threat of a
lawsuit however) I have dealt with Manulife, I have dealt with Short and
long term disability income with RBC. In fact the only other time I ever
was late on a bill was when I was an employee at RBC in the collections
department. I was going through the transition from short to long term
disability. I received no cheque do to Manulife. I was ultimately refunded
for any charges.

So not only do you not have accounts for people on fixed incomes, you then
charge me an NSF fee when I took every step to resolve this issue. But for
the fact that this cashier took her time, but for the fact that I went to
the teller instead of the ATM machine (I thought it faster to go to the
till) I would not have been charged this.

Where the funds in my account on the moment of the deposit, Now, but as
soon as I realised I phoned RBC and talked to Dan. I then literally ran to
my fiance's work, then to the branch. I deposited enough to cover and
cleared that with the teller. Low and behold I get home that night, and the
cheque comes back.

This letter is to inform you of two things. First, I am now setting up new
accounts with I will be opening a new chequering account at Presidents
Choice Financial, and a savings account at ING Direct. Not only do they
have accounts for people with disabilities, they have no charge accounts. I
have been overwhelmed by the customer service and the people I have talked
to. I will be taking the appropriate measures to change my automatic
withdrawals for my bills, and then I will pay off my Visa.

Second, I am now requesting refund of the $40.00 charge to my account. I am
a person on a very fixed budget. As a result of my injury I am unable to
work a full time job. With the economy the way it is, getting hit with a
$40.00 charge is several days of food for me. That is my visa payment. I
have not only been a valued customer, but I was a valued and award winning
staff member. As a previous collection agent for RBC I stay on top of my
banking. I never run from my responsibilities

I just think that RBC is nickel and dimming a person with disability. Who
struggles to make ends meet every day? Who is trying to carry the torch for
the Olympics in 2010. You have in your power, at the cost of 40.00, the
chance to do an amazing thing. Give me back my money.

p.s. I remember all these things because my accident was over 5 years ago.
I worked very hard every day to retain some semblance of my ability to
store memories. One thing I was taught in Collection at RBC was to record
everything. I make notes on my phone, my laptop, with everything I do. I
also have the transaction record of my deposit
Transit: 05680
Date: 03 Apr 2009-04-05
Time: 17:03:46
Reference # 1090936142886205680
That 3 minutes and 46 seconds cost me $40.00.






This is RBC response, with a nice little lecture of how banking works.


Dear Mr. McGuire:


We have received your message regarding the NSF fee in your account. My name is Cathy and I can be reached at 1-866-889-8860 ext 7371. Your message has been brought to my attention and I welcome the opportunity to respond. I am very sorry to hear of the difficulty and inconvenience you encountered recently with your rent cheque.



Upon review of your message and your account, Mr. McGuire, I will reverse the NSF fee as a courtesy to you. Funds are required in the account on the date the cheque is issued. For preauthorized payments, the funds are required on deposit prior to 6 p.m. that same day.



Please note, you will want to retrieve the NSF cheque if you replace it for your landlord, as it can be cashed if the payee has it certified.


I apologize for the delay in replying to your message. If I can be of further assistance, Mr. McGuire, please do not hesitate to contact me through this message center or by phone.

Sincerely,

Cathy O'Dell
Client Care Specialist
Royal Bank of Canada
1-866-889-8860, Ext 7371







So I am done with RBC. I worked for them for years, I had allot of issues when I was a collections officer. I never treated people like they were bad for owing money. On the one hand here is RBC advertising on Buses, TV, Movies, Radio, they camp outside of colleges and university's getting you sign up for credit. The second you owe money, or make a mistake. You are treated like a criminal. I am tired of being nickle and dimmed to death. I mean here are there earnings in 2008. They talk about how bad things are because they only earned Net 4,555 million. Now I am not a banker or an economist. I do know though that what they claim is the net income is allot les than there actual earnings.

TORONTO, December 5, 2008 – Royal Bank of Canada (RY on TSX and NYSE) today reported net income of $4,555 million for the
year ended October 31, 2008, down $937 million or 17% from $5,492 million a year ago. Earnings over last year were reduced by
write downs of $2,785 million before-tax ($1,418 million after-tax and compensation adjustments) and higher provisions for credit losses
primarily in our U.S. banking business. These factors were partially offset by gains of $533 million ($273 million after-tax and
compensation adjustments) on the fair value of adjustments on RBC debt designated as held-for-trading(1), and the reduction of the
Enron Corp. (Enron)-related litigation provision by $542 million ($252 million after-tax and related compensation adjustments). We had
solid results in Canadian Banking and certain businesses in Capital Markets


I got this from http://www.rbc.com/investorrelations/pdf/q408release.pdf RBC's Investment websight.

I mean there a bank, if they know how to get .25 cents out of you and me, imagine what they do to the government and big business. Next to Politician, and Cell Phone company's, banks well they are just after themselves.

For years I was there collector. I know.

Anyway I am now on the journey for a better bank. A bank that will work with me, my disability, and my specific needs. Not what the banks "Demographic" says I should have or do. So we will see. That is my rant for the day.

17 comments:

Anonymous said...

I have the same problem with RBC, I cover my short before 6pm that day, however, they dingged me for the NSF fees anyways. My automatic withdrawal amount was $25, I was charged a $40 NSF fee .. for being a few hours late. And the customer rep on the phone says they can't reverse it.

I was so ferious, I closed my personal account, and my RRSP account with them. For a bank to be so greedy, and short sited, I don't feel they are there for me. I've been with RBC for nearly 20 years, this is the last straw.

I am going to close my Business account once they release the hold on a serious of certified cheques I've deposited 5 days ago. I was actually told that if I had deposited in the bank machine there wouldn't have been a hold, but the Teller deposit - chances are it may or may not be on hold. Depends on how they feel that day.

Seriously?

There are other banks out there that wants my business. RBC has gotten to big to care, and for a customer for nearly 20 years, this hurts. My loyalty wasn't reflected. I'm moving on.

Nibs said...

I was just dinged $40 NSF ITEM FEE because a PayPal withdrawal for $7.07 put me under $0.00 on deposit. I had no idea PayPal could affect my regular bank account. I was also stunned that the bank refused to cover me for $7.07 but charged me $40!

I have been with this bank for 30 years. If they refuse to reverse this, I'll go elsewhere, and tell everyone I know to avoid RBC.

The really sad part of all this is that banks in Canada create money out of nothing. For a teller to say "If you make sure you have the money in the account you won't bounce cheques." when they make up money out of thin air, is beyond the pale...

Time for a revolution, people!

Anonymous said...

That was a really well written letter! I just got hit with a $40 NSF fee as well and wrote them trying to get it reversed. My story wasn't nearly persuasive as yours, though.

Your story about recovering from a coma and moving on to accomplish everything you have is truly inspiring. Power to you!

Cheers,

Nick from Montreal

Aquatik said...

None of this surprises me about RBC. They are as close to a scam and fraud operation as a bank can get. It is well past the time government should act. Instead this bullsh.. about referring you to their own ombudsman. The banks need a slap across the head, especially on NSF fees. I believe they are deliberately manipulating their computer system to make money from the people who can least afford it. Yeah! I've heard nothing but 'bad' about the Royal, and nothing but 'good' about President's Choice banking. Go figure. Perhaps a billion or two class action lawsuit against the Royal on NSF fees might help them to take notice. In addition, there is good evidence that the Royal has renounced its fiduciary and 1st party relationship between client and itself, in favour of processing third party payments when the bank knows or should have known, that there is no money in the account. The bank makes the 40.00 fee for NSF of course. Its time the courts and government straightened the Royal out!

Anonymous said...

I've recently moved all our business accounts away from Royal Bank due to excessive fees. There are options out there. It seems that their mandate to transition cost centers (the areas of their business that provide customer service) to profit centers (the areas that generate revenue) is making it almost impossible for RBC to provide a decent face-to-face service. As long as you don't have to talk to a real human being and don't mind paying for service fees to push buttons on ATM machines then you'll be just fine.

Anonymous said...

After years of abuse from RBC and their excessive fees, I took all the steps to close my account. On Friday July 30th I went in with full intent on closing my account. The service representative convinced me to change it to a strictly savings account. I also am recovering from a head injury and worked very hard to return to my job! B/C of short term memory issues as soon as a bill comes in I go online and post payment for my next payday! All my paycheques are direct deposit from a government source. Yet continually they will post debits from my account before posting the credits charging me either NSF fees or allowing their fees to go through then charging me overdraft fees and overdraft interest yet they won't give me an overdraft!!! Well I checked my account today which was changed from a signature account on Friday July 30th to a savings account and lo and behold once again they have screwed me over. They changed my account on the 29th, yet that is not the date I went in physically and changed it, and charged me .49 cents a day x 28 days for service fees for changing my account from a Signature account to a savings account. Did this all the day before I actually did it and charged me overdraft again... What the fuck???? Sorry for swearting but this is insane!!!!!!!
I cried when I saw it this morning, as once again more money is being stolen from me that I need to make ends meet!!!! I have changed all my accounts to Van City Credit Union where I have been treated like a human being and a valued customer from the get go.

Anonymous said...

After years of abuse from RBC and their excessive fees, I took all the steps to close my account. On Friday July 30th I went in with full intent on closing my account. The service representative convinced me to change it to a strictly savings account. I also am recovering from a head injury and worked very hard to return to my job! B/C of short term memory issues as soon as a bill comes in I go online and post payment for my next payday! All my paycheques are direct deposit from a government source. Yet continually they will post debits from my account before posting the credits charging me either NSF fees or allowing their fees to go through then charging me overdraft fees and overdraft interest yet they won't give me an overdraft!!! Well I checked my account today which was changed from a signature account on Friday July 30th to a savings account and lo and behold once again they have screwed me over. They changed my account on the 29th, yet that is not the date I went in physically and changed it, and charged me .49 cents a day x 28 days for service fees for changing my account from a Signature account to a savings account. Did this all the day before I actually did it and charged me overdraft again... What the fuck???? Sorry for swearting but this is insane!!!!!!!
I cried when I saw it this morning, as once again more money is being stolen from me that I need to make ends meet!!!! I have changed all my accounts to Van City Credit Union where I have been treated like a human being and a valued customer from the get go.

Dave said...

One thing I would suggest is talking to your home branch. Just look at your checks and #'s in it will have the Branch #. Or call the 1-800-769-2511 and make an appt to see your branch. They tend to be able to fix things in the office faster than on the phone. It hads a human touch.

Arfi said...

I was with royal bank for last ten years and after their scams of charging high interest rates on visa balances when I was eligible for lower rate visa was too much for me. They did not even tell me they are increasing interests. They kept looting me with high NSF fee on three automatic payments which did not go through I decided to quit RBC and joined a Credit Union. I had valid explanation of unexpectedly being out of country and not being able to deposit funds in time as my pay cheques were still in envelops at my home address. This scam bank charges fee for nothing, but simply refusing or returning a cheque. They are a total scam. And on top these banks threaten you for reporting to credit rating agency etc. To hell with being a borrower. I am not making a good amount of money. I intend to save and buy a house from savings rather than ask these leeches for mortgage. This north American banking system has made all of you slaves who work for bank not for yourself. I come from a country where they save money and buy homes with personal cash and I had never thought banks here loot people like this. F&$% with Banks. I would rather declare bankruptcy and go cash than pay these scumbags any dime from now on.

Shazzz

Anonymous said...

i hate rbc,i have money in my account and now there saying they have to make sure a personal cheque made out to me back in oct is good and it could take 4 days i dont have time when iam trying to bring home my boyfreind for the hoildays and he was hurt on the way to the airport..so we have a hosptail bill over seas to deal with right now,so rbc go to hell

Dave said...

I am sorry to here of your challenges with RBC. I know that my suggestions won't help you in the time you have. However if you do follow through you can maybe prevent this from happening again.

1) complain. If you don't like the person at the bank, or the person on the phone. Ask for there name and to be transferred to there boss.

2) if you don't like the next person or they ask to "call you back" ask for someone above them. At the start of the conversation.

3) If you still don't get the response you want or feel you have not reached the response you want. Write an email.

4) You can also contact the Ombudsman http://www.rbc.com/ombudsman/ if you have documented the conversation and the people and put in a complaint you will usually get some kind of response.

I know that this answer is long winded and frunstrating. However I found, not only in my experience working for RBC but also in dealing with them. The squeake weal get's the grease. You will eventually find someone who can actually think, and be a real person. You just have to work really hard.

Easier to handle is change banks to a credit union. No fee's and good customer service.

Anonymous said...

I actually just got charged 42.50$ NSF for a insurance thing that I had informed them to cancel, that was first off only ten dollars, now I'm charged 40$ because they charged me on something that I told them to cancel months ago, this is very poor service and I will not stand for it, i have to call there 'Insurance' branch in a matter of hours and inform them of the incident and get them to refund this money...

I am glad to hear you got your money back, especially with the difficulty you have experienced in life, Power to you good sir, I wish you the best.

Anonymous said...

Sometimes life gets hectic, and sometimes I don't balance my checkbook. What I cannot stand is the punishment imposed by the Schedule A banks of the (currently) $42.50 NSF charge when my account balance is even a penny short to cover the check and/or PayPal payment. I don't care what the banking 'agreement' says (the 'agreement that was I was not permitted to negotiate and which was unilaterally imposed on me); $42.50 is a PENALTY and penalty clauses are illegal under the existing case law in Canada. So the next time you're hit with such a charge, remind the bank that you're going to sue in small claims court unless the NSF charge is refunded, which is what I will do this time around if TD Canada Trust doesn't step up and credit my account for the $42.50 that was illegally taken from my account.

Aquatik said...

Go for it Dave! Its quite clear that the banking system is not what it used to be. It has become little more than licensed thievery. Sad, the gov't does nothing about it. All the best.

Anonymous said...

Today is October 30, 2013.

Yesterday I was hit with "2" separate NSF Charges for purchases I made on Ebay. I checked my balance on RBC online banking to ensure I had the necessary funds, I did have enough.

I made the purchases and paid via paypal. I got emails saying the money was paid from my account. Lo and behold, I got an email from Paypal saying that the Payment was "reversed" for NSF- I was blown away and Angry as hell.

I saw my balance, I DID have more than enough in my account to cover the charges, but was still hit with NSF charges of $42.50.

This morning I called the RBC hotline and explained to the CSR what occurred. I was surprised, but I told her that I called my worker (ODSP) and they referred me to the Ombudsman in Ontario. I was immediately refunded the $90 without any sort of challenge from the CSR.

It seems the magic word is "Ombudsman".

Good luck to all of you that is having this problem. There can be changes, but it will take people power to do it- the government will NOT HELP, even if you're dying or on death's bed.

Anonymous said...

Maybe you people need to learn how to spell? It's "fees", not "fee's", and "cheques", not "checks".

Honestly, nothing like the ignorant whining and complaining about legitimate charges. Suck it up,buttercups.

Dave McGuire said...

Once again a "Anonymous" troll. Love people who have nothing to add to life but to comment on others peoples input. Like an autocorrect spelling mistake somehow judges your quality as a person, or illegitimatizes your point of view. I am totally down for criticism, that is why I post. I want feedback from intelligent well thought out arguments, or individual statements. Not crap from the lowest common denominator. So "Buttercup" perhaps you should actually read the article/post. Take things into context and think about what you add to life? http://youtu.be/PZ8DRTMuO3Y that's me. What have you done for society besides comment on what other people do?

Oh by the way the bank, in my case, did make an error. However I have a feeling that you probably hit your wife when she "acts up". Punches dogs and shoots birds. It's ok though. I see you for what you are, and I forgive.

Oh I also stand up for what I believe in with my name. You on the other hand are an anonymous coward hiding behind a mommy that daddy probably beat.